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ryuu seika
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
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 Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Meowzy wrote: | | How would the fact that it's multiple souls make it easier for Tabatha to accept them? If anything, that should be more difficult. |
the mana signature thing implies to me that average soul, not total soul is what matters. how this explaination of my explaination makes sense I don't know but I believe the original explaination did.
| Meowzy wrote: | | As for her voice, that's already been fixed when she appears in Heimdall (what is up with that, anyway?). |
probably lazy voice actors, etc then as that makes no sense story wise.
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| Smugleaf wrote: | | wow, that guy needs mental help |
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Zwei
Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 273
Location: Mars?
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Question:
Should Tabatha not accept Martel´s soul (Mithos´s sister´s soul), but in the end became the spirit Martel, who is another person... kind of because only a part of her is Martel (Mithos´s sister)? |
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mks
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 428
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I always thought it was pretty easy to understand why tabatha could not take up martels soul. Hell, collette could not do it, and she had a perfect mana signature.
Martel did not want to be resurrected. She did not was to go into tabatha, and left. The same exact way she did with Collette. Mithos, in his batshit insane state, just took this as a "oops tabatha was not good enough", and went on his merry way.
Hell. She can obviously control where her soul goes, by her leaving Collette when she damn well pleased. The only reason she probably entered her in the first place was because she knew that now was the time to tell her brother to stop; probably because there were people in the presence to stop him. |
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Divinus Fulmen
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 1378
Location: Trapped behind the forth wall
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| mks wrote: | I always thought it was pretty easy to understand why tabatha could not take up martels soul. Hell, collette could not do it, and she had a perfect mana signature.
Martel did not want to be resurrected. She did not was to go into tabatha, and left. The same exact way she did with Collette. Mithos, in his batshit insane state, just took this as a "oops tabatha was not good enough", and went on his merry way.
Hell. She can obviously control where her soul goes, by her leaving Collette when she damn well pleased. The only reason she probably entered her in the first place was because she knew that now was the time to tell her brother to stop; probably because there were people in the presence to stop him. |
You win the thread.
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Lunar Eclipse
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:57 am Post subject: |
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I think most of us understand that Martel didn't want to be reincarnated (seems pretty obvious when she takes over Colette momentarily and then ducks out), but that doesn't magically resolve the strange Tabatha story arc or even explain why they bothered to use her for the finale. Why is it that she seems to become less robotic over the course of the game, particularly once she's actually broken? It's like the writers were trying to gradually make her into a more appropriate vessel or something, but as you pointed out, it was really only ever Martel's will in the first place that prevented the fusion. Plus, as I said, why use her at all? She'd been absent from the plot for a while, and it'd probably be more consistent with Phantasia to just have the maidens remain a part of the revived Great Seed instead of going all animatronic by merging with Tabatha. Martel's pretty incorporeal and directly tied to the tree in Phantasia anyway, so I'd like it more if she and the other spirits just merged with the tree and became the tree itself. She already says she's the incarnation of the tree in the ending. Why does she need a robotic body to manifest?
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mks
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 428
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| Lunar Eclipse wrote: | | I think most of us understand that Martel didn't want to be reincarnated (seems pretty obvious when she takes over Colette momentarily and then ducks out), but that doesn't magically resolve the strange Tabatha story arc or even explain why they bothered to use her for the finale. Why is it that she seems to become less robotic over the course of the game, particularly once she's actually broken? It's like the writers were trying to gradually make her into a more appropriate vessel or something, but as you pointed out, it was really only ever Martel's will in the first place that prevented the fusion. Plus, as I said, why use her at all? She'd been absent from the plot for a while, and it'd probably be more consistent with Phantasia to just have the maidens remain a part of the revived Great Seed instead of going all animatronic by merging with Tabatha. Martel's pretty incorporeal and directly tied to the tree in Phantasia anyway, so I'd like it more if she and the other spirits just merged with the tree and became the tree itself. She already says she's the incarnation of the tree in the ending. Why does she need a robotic body to manifest? |
Well, I never said that there were no plot holes at all. Obviously martabatha was a poor way to tie in the "Spirit of the Tree" Martel, and "Mithos' Sister" Martel. I never said that my theory solved all the plot holes, just the one that stemmed from the question of how tabatha was able to take up martel's soul. |
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Meowzy
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 8540
Location: The Sacred Realm
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:08 am Post subject: |
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But guys, you're forgetting something. Martel doesn't leave Colette's body until after Kratos or Zelos does something to her Cruxis Crystal. I'm not entirely sure if she can leave at will, regardless of whether or not she wants to.
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mks
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 428
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Meowzy wrote: | | But guys, you're forgetting something. Martel doesn't leave Colette's body until after Kratos or Zelos does something to her Cruxis Crystal. I'm not entirely sure if she can leave at will, regardless of whether or not she wants to. |
Dident he just put her key crest back on? At the fourth seal they had to to take her heart and memories, so obviously mithos would have to repeat that step in order to complete the whole process. |
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Lewnatic
Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 6567
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Meowzy, you have a point but then why does Martel say "Goodbye, Mithos" before it happens? I mean, she's implying that she's going to be leaving Colette's body.
Unless she knew what Zelos/Kratos was going to do. I just assumed what they did was for Colette and her soul.
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ryuu seika
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mks wrote: | | Didn't he just put her key crest back on? At the fourth seal they had to to take her heart and memories, so obviously mithos would have to repeat that step in order to complete the whole process. |
from what I could tell this was the case, though whether or not it was actually said that this was what happed I do not remember. the key crest was definitely removed for the ritual to take place so it would make sense that its replacement was nessicery for colletts return to normal but I don't think it had anything to do with martel leaving.
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| Smugleaf wrote: | | wow, that guy needs mental help |
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Divinus Fulmen
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 1378
Location: Trapped behind the forth wall
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Lunar Eclipse wrote: | | I think most of us understand that Martel didn't want to be reincarnated (seems pretty obvious when she takes over Colette momentarily and then ducks out), but that doesn't magically resolve the strange Tabatha story arc or even explain why they bothered to use her for the finale. Why is it that she seems to become less robotic over the course of the game, particularly once she's actually broken? It's like the writers were trying to gradually make her into a more appropriate vessel or something, but as you pointed out, it was really only ever Martel's will in the first place that prevented the fusion. Plus, as I said, why use her at all? She'd been absent from the plot for a while, and it'd probably be more consistent with Phantasia to just have the maidens remain a part of the revived Great Seed instead of going all animatronic by merging with Tabatha. Martel's pretty incorporeal and directly tied to the tree in Phantasia anyway, so I'd like it more if she and the other spirits just merged with the tree and became the tree itself. She already says she's the incarnation of the tree in the ending. Why does she need a robotic body to manifest? |
Because if Martel entered the tree along with Mithos. It would make less sense to name the tree Yggdrasil.
Yggdrasil = Tree
Martel = Spirit
You can see this was done this way to clarify this. (Used "this" 3 times in one sentience. lol)
The only real plot hole is why Tabatha was at the Tower in the first place.
They should have explained that in Tales of Fandom at LEAST.
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Lunar Eclipse
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Divinus Ratio wrote: | Because if Martel entered the tree along with Mithos. It would make less sense to name the tree Yggdrasil.
Yggdrasil = Tree
Martel = Spirit
You can see this was done this way to clarify this. (Used "this" 3 times in one sentience. lol) |
Yggdrasil is Martel's last name as well, but regardless, Martel still always says in every Aselian game that she is the tree. Her fate is tied to the tree as well, so it never makes sense that she actually needs a body, particularly a robotic one.
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Divinus Fulmen
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 1378
Location: Trapped behind the forth wall
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Lunar Eclipse wrote: | | Divinus Ratio wrote: | Because if Martel entered the tree along with Mithos. It would make less sense to name the tree Yggdrasil.
Yggdrasil = Tree
Martel = Spirit
You can see this was done this way to clarify this. (Used "this" 3 times in one sentience. lol) |
Yggdrasil is Martel's last name as well, but regardless, Martel still always says in every Aselian game that she is the tree. Her fate is tied to the tree as well, so it never makes sense that she actually needs a body, particularly a robotic one. |
I still don't see it as a plot hole, more over as a useless inclusion to confuse people, and muddy up the the plot..
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Kureejii Lea
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 232
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Jones wrote: | | Meowzy wrote: | | See, this is where the different fan interpretations start to clash. I always assumed Mithos had virtually nothing to do with the wings. I always thought that the Exsphere had successfully transformed into a Cruxis Crystal, partly due to stress and partly due to the fact that it is, indeed, one-of-a-kind. |
If that was the case, then why when Lloyd smashed Mithos Cruxis Crystal did all the shards and sparkles flowed into Lloyd's exsphere? If that can't be explained then it makes the little event as random as Tabatha. I'm convinced Mithos Cruxis Crystal would have played some part in Lloyd's wings. |
Remember though that the shards leave Lloyd's exsphere and go into the seed to help it germinate. Lloyd doesn't suddenly lose his wings when that happens. The whole thing with his exsphere is that it continuously grows stronger, so it's not a stretch that by the end of the game it had simply grown to at least Cruxis Crystal levels.
| Lunar Eclipse wrote: | | Divinus Ratio wrote: | Because if Martel entered the tree along with Mithos. It would make less sense to name the tree Yggdrasil.
Yggdrasil = Tree
Martel = Spirit
You can see this was done this way to clarify this. (Used "this" 3 times in one sentience. lol) |
Yggdrasil is Martel's last name as well, but regardless, Martel still always says in every Aselian game that she is the tree. Her fate is tied to the tree as well, so it never makes sense that she actually needs a body, particularly a robotic one. |
I think the body just served as a medium through which the spirit(s) could finally combine and manifest through, not something they actually inhabited. If it were just possession, the body wouldn't have suddenly grown a lot taller and changed in appearance. The whole thing was a transformation; Tabatha was just a medium to help it happen.
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Zwei
Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 273
Location: Mars?
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:47 am Post subject: |
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I thought Tabatha stands in front to Altessa´s house... or at least near to it...?
Because this ruin in the right does not look like the tower ruins... |
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