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LadyofSpades

Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 32 Location: under the sea
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bubblejet wrote: |
I think it's obvious that Zelos has some pretty strong feelings about Kratos...
(spoiler for Zelos path)
| Quote: | Zelos: I think...parents are there to protect their children.
Lloyd: Well...yeah.
Zelos:But this guy, he just goes back and forth, like he can't make up his mind. Doesn't he realize that it only hurts you? And then after all that, he challenges you to a duel?! What kind of family turns swords against one another?! This whole thing's nuts!
Lloyd: Yeah... Well, I guess that's true...
Zelos: You certainly don't seem that worked up about it. Doesn't he piss you off?
Lloyd: Well, right now, you're mad enough for the both of us.
Zelos: ...I hate parents like that. Parents who just jerk their kids around for their own convenience. |
But despite all this, Zelos goes through an elaborate "betrayal" to help Kratos get the materials for the Eternal Ring.
Of course, none of this is true for the Kratos path... |
Interesting... I totally forgot about that scene... It's near the Origin summon, right? _________________
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bubblejet
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 55 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, it's Zelos' Heimdall scene. I didn't write it down though, I just copied that from the guide at gamefaqs. _________________
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LadyofSpades

Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 32 Location: under the sea
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Akurei Karasu wrote: |
Yeah, I kind of found it weird how they just forgot about Zelos after he died...>_>;; "Yup, okay, the guy's dead, MOVING ON!" It's just like how Kratos goes up to Derris-Kharlan; heck, Lloyd doesn't even try to stop him! @____x;; "Yeah, all right, Dad, see ya later! Have fun!" -_-;; |
Yeah, the writing got weird like that sometimes. Too bad really, considering how deep the plots and character pasts got, and then when it comes to goodbyes and such they just... flake. Very strange. I wonder if they fixed the wordings in the PS2 version.
But when you feel like playing Tales again you should really try see the other characters' Flanoir scene. It's really interesting to see it play out, and how they're really feeling. Genis' especially, it's almost forshadowing kinda. And of course Zelos' too. If you save before you talk to the doctor in Flanoir in many different save files, you can talk to all of them. Although you might need to raise the relationship levels with some in order to talk with them. _________________
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LadyofSpades

Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 32 Location: under the sea
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Lol, right. I was kinda wondering how you remembered that scene word for word...  _________________
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Aku
Joined: 05 Jul 2004 Posts: 9480
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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For the other Flanoir scenes, I have done Genis, Colette, Raine and Sheena. I'd really like to see some others though. >_> Once I get my butt back to that GCN AND I find my TOS disc. -_-;; _________________ Resigned October 29, 2007. Life calls. |
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LadyofSpades

Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 32 Location: under the sea
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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I have seen the Genis, Colette, Presea, Kratos, and Zelos Flanoir scenes. Although I finished the game first with Kratos, which really freaked me out when I got to the Tower of Salvation.... I haven't played down that route since. ^^; Although I might have to, just to make sure there aren't any Zelos tributes that I overlooked. _________________
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bubblejet
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 55 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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I like the Heimdall scenes better than the Flanoir scenes. The Flanoir scenes give some interesting history, but the Heimdall scenes are better at showing what the characters are thinking. _________________
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Kyosuke Kusaragi

Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 3584
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen the Kratos Ending 5 times, (I wouldn't have to do that if Zelos would actually like me! I want his Orb!) Colette's scene, Genis' scene, Raine's scene, Sheena's scene, Presea's scene, and Regal's scene. That leaves Zelos. ARGH! Stupid chosen! Playing the Kratos route of the game gives you a slightly better insight on Zelos' and Sheena's past relationship. When he passed on, Sheena was crying. you don't really notice it, since tears never appear in the freakin' game.
I like Zelos, but his pervertedness makes him my second least favorite character. It may not bother some people, but when your friend and half your school are perverts, it's really irritating. Of course, my least favorite is Regal because of his backstory. _________________
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bubblejet
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 55 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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My favorite thing about Tales of Symphonia is that out of all the main party characters, I really don't have a least favorite.
And despite all the stupid, insensitive things that Zelos says, he does have the funniest battle quotes. "We're going with my pimp plan!" _________________
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LadyofSpades

Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 32 Location: under the sea
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yeah, Heimdell.... I only got Presea's scene. I didn't realize you could get the others, too.
So Sheena cries? Really? I had the feeling that she took it harder than the others, but I didn't know she actually cried... And good luck BladesMage on getting Zelos' Flanoir scene. Try choosing him to go with Lloyd when the occasions arise, and if you heal him a lot I think that helps a little too.
I also have a deep anger for perverted guys. I honestly cannot stand it and on occasion it makes me a little violent towards them. ^^; Which is why my affection towards Zelos is so strange. Even when he's making those crude jokes, I feel no anger towards him. None. I mean, I glare at the screen for a moment, but that's it. It's what led me to research his past and eventually write that bio. Wierd, huh? _________________
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Kyosuke Kusaragi

Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 3584
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:14 am Post subject: |
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I've done that for quite a while, yet he is still last. I'm trying to make other people hate me. Sheena is the easiest. you can make her drop big time by telling Chif Igaguri what Kuchinawa was doing, then not sopping Kuchinawa when he tries to kill himself.
And yeah, Sheena took it quite hard. She has feelings for him. The real Zelos, not that idiotic, carefree chosen. The serious one. Sheena tries to hide it, which is why she put her hand over her face. no one thinks she's capable of crying. _________________
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Typhoon
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 49
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:49 am Post subject: |
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Akurei: I think people "put down" Kratos because, when it comes down to it, they're different flavors of the same thing. Like coffee, just with more angst and pretty wings.
They're really very similar. One of the best ways to describe a character is to contrast them; Zelos and Kratos are compared most often. *shrug*
Comments and nitpickings on the biography...
Zelos doesn't resent Seles. He cares for her very, very deeply. But he pushes her away because he's afraid that, because he's the Chosen, she may be used against him. He doesn't want that to happen to her, so he pushes her away. Seles acts coldly towards him to hide her hurt feelings because of this. She's scared that he may hate her, but she cares for him. There's no resentment whatsoever.
I'm not really sure whether Seles actually wants to be the Chosen. I find it unlikely. She loves her brother, and she's very aware the only way she'd get the title would be his death. Others probably get that impression, however, because she's likely constantly thinking of and worrying about her brother.
I find it likely that Zelos graduated valedictorian WITHOUT having to have his "hunnies" give him the answers to tests. Zelos banks on others underestimating him; that was the best way to make Lloyd and friends think he was an idiot.
I think you misunderstood the Angel Transformation. From what I understand...
At each Seal, an angel basically attacks the Chosen with harmful angelic magic. That's what makes Colette collapse after every seal. The pain awakens the Cruxis Crystal, giving the Chosen the wings and the Angelic magic. The Chosen loses parts of their humanity as the Cruxis Crystal grows in strength.
Being an angel is nothing more than having a Cruxis Crystal. If you know how they work (which Cruxis would, and Zelos worked for them!), then it's possible to awaken it enough to allow the wings and to boost your physical capabilities without leading to harmful side effects. Colette experienced all that pain because, essentially, Cruxis wanted the Crystal to grow very quickly. They could afford to take their time with Zelos, especially since they couldn't afford to have him collapsing when he's supposed to infiltrate Lloyd's group... |
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LadyofSpades

Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 32 Location: under the sea
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your nitpicks, Typhoon.
I'm sure that Zelos and Seles do care for each other deeply, I just figured there might be some resentment because of what happened with their mothers, and then the father issue. It never occured to me that Seles could have been used to blackmail Zelos, especially since she was imprisoned-of-sorts after the tragedy. You bring up some interesting theories.
And while Zelos does indeed use people underestimating him to his advantage, he actually admits in the game that the reason he graduated at the top of his class was because of his hunnies. I think it's in the Z-skit where he helps Lloyd or Genis with the math problems.
I was never really sure why Colette collapsed after every seal, but I thought it was because she was exposed to the Cruxis Crystal's power, plus with the new attack she learned and everything else was too much for her. And without a key crest to hold back the crystal, it just continued to... eat her, for lack of a better phrase.
Although Presea has/had a Cruxis Crystal growing inside of her and for a while didn't have a proper key crest, yet she never collapsed or had wings. Although maybe there's a difference. But still, it may have been possible for Zelos to have gotten his wings without going through the trials. Either way, I appreciate you sharing your theories.  _________________
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Typhoon
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 49
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And while Zelos does indeed use people underestimating him to his advantage, he actually admits in the game that the reason he graduated at the top of his class was because of his hunnies. I think it's in the Z-skit where he helps Lloyd or Genis with the math problems. |
*nod* As I said, he may be trying to get them to underestimate him there... That, or that I'm just making this more complicated than it is.
| Quote: | | I was never really sure why Colette collapsed after every seal, but I thought it was because she was exposed to the Cruxis Crystal's power, plus with the new attack she learned and everything else was too much for her. And without a key crest to hold back the crystal, it just continued to... eat her, for lack of a better phrase. |
I'm not sure of the exact quote, but I do know it's said at some point that exspheres - and by extension, Cruxis Crystals - grow and become attached to the wielder as they experience pain and hardship. That's the point of human ranches - to grow exspheres by putting people through pain and hardship.
That's more or less what they do at the Seals. To speed up the Cruxis Crystal's growth, they "grant a gift of angelic power" to the Chosen. I'm quite sure that's what leads to the actual collapsing; the Cruxis Crystal has nothing to do with it. And the angelic power has nothing to do with the loss of sensation.
The pain experienced by the Chosen causes the Crystal to grow. They get the wings at the first seal, and as the Crystal grows, they can tap into it to cast Angelic magic. (Which, apparently, has nothing to do with normal magic; Colette apparently can't cast Fireball, but Judgement isn't a problem.) The Desians also exist to further the growth of the Chosen's Crystal. They attack the Chosen and others around them. The strong emotion awakened as a result "feeds" the Crystal.
I doubt Cruxis Crystals or Exspheres would normally cause the user to collapse; Lloyd never does, and his Exsphere is head and shoulders above Colette's. No one else's ever causes them pain or weakens them in any way, either.
Presea's Exsphere was never a Cruxis Crystal. It could have eventually developed into one, but it wasn't one. Zelos got his wings but didn't lose any sort of sensation because he had a Key Crest and his was likely awakened more slowly.
And... After that long-winded explanation, I think that's all. Sorry if that was a bit messily organized... |
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LadyofSpades

Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 32 Location: under the sea
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Hmm... maybe. Sorta hard to tell with a man who always wears a mask. I'll have to see that skit again, but from what I remember I had the feeling he was being serious. But, who knows.
| Quote: |
To speed up the Cruxis Crystal's growth, they "grant a gift of angelic power" to the Chosen. I'm quite sure that's what leads to the actual collapsing; the Cruxis Crystal has nothing to do with it. And the angelic power has nothing to do with the loss of sensation.
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Colette's Cruxis Crystal wasn't contained though. While the trials and hardships do make it grow faster, that's not the sole reason why it grows. It's like parasite - it will always feed on the host unless it is properly contained. I believe that the reason why Colette was losing her humanity was because her crystal was free to feast on her. Once Lloyd gave her the keycrest and it fully contained itself by the time they went back to Mt. Fooji, Colette re-awakened and got her senses back. And it's because of that keycrest. So that's proof that the Cruxis Crystal is one of the reasons why she was losing herself. Add that to the seal breaking, guardian fighting, and the angelic power she recieved, it's no wonder she kept collapsing.
And you're right about Presea. Which is really sad on my part, considering I just had that scene when Kate was talking about it last night. --; _________________
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