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Moontoon
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
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Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Seems like I was wrong about girls not disliking Jude around here. Guess they just don't feel the need to tell everyone about it? Or maybe I just need to check the Xillia threads nore often 
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Let
Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Colour wrote: |
Uh no. I saw it like Jude was being a constant dick to his friend Leia and having an unhealthy obsession over a woman he just like Milla. Leia's gender has nothing to do with it and she is FAR from a helpless lady. Even if we don't factor Leia into this, it's really upsetting to see Jude treat a so-called "friend" so badly. Jude in TOX reminds me of some jerks I knew in real life. Yeah, Jude's a realistic character, but that doesn't excuse him for being a jerk. |
That's not what I meant. I'm not saying the stereotype is actually happening in ToX, I'm saying it might have reminded some people of that kind of pair and that's why they may have projected those feelings towards Jude being such an insensitive jerk. |
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sistaofpeace1
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 6683
Location: In my deep dark basement, plotting to kidnap my niece
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Meowzy wrote: | | I still think the Jude hate is ridiculous. Luke was a dick to the entire party for half the game, but nobody hates him. |
If Luke never matured in Abyss at all, I certainly would not have liked him. But fortunately the entire game pretty much revolves around his coming-of-age.
/late to the party
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Ismeria_Gold
Joined: 04 Jan 2013
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Yume Hanabi wrote: | The problem with the way he tells Leia to go home is that it makes him sound like an hypocrite.
Him not wanting her to come to the mine with him was just stupidity. He knew the place was dangerous, and with only himself to push Milla's wheelchair, how would he protect them? As Milla observed, the more the better. He knew Leia's a stronger fighter than him, so unless he was actually planning to die there with Milla (which, of course, he wasn't), he had no reason to tell her to go home. He was just annoyed at her butting in because he wanted to keep staying alone with Milla.
And then he doesn't want her to come along to the journey when, as Colour said, he was all pushing to take Elise with them (and at that point she was a seemingly normal shy kid who didn't look like she know how to fight), even though Milla warned him that she'd be a burden and she might die. But when someone with actual fighting skills wants to join, and everyone else agrees? No, go home. Also, for all his talk about taking responsibility for Elise, he didn't really do much for her. It's Milla who she ends up relying on.
About the coliseum, sure, it's nice to show some concern, but maybe he could do it without sounding so condescending. It just sounded like "you're embarrassing, shut up".
And it's not just that. He mocks her enthusiasm all the time; for example in that side event when Leia and Elise were having a silly girl talk, he kept making snide remarks and was really rude. Rowen even had to come and distract him before the girls got fed up.
He sometimes has that condescending "I know better than you" attitude (with Leia, sometimes with Elise and Alvin, and I think with Rowen once; only Milla is free from his exasperated sighs), even though it's probably unconscious on his part. It just rubs me off the wrong way.
I think his problem is that he's in a phase where a lot of things around him changed, and he was trying to find his marks. I don't think the usual, pre-game Jude was like that (at least not to that extent). But he went through a lot at the beginning, and spent a good time of the game being lost and trying to find what he wanted to do. He started to idealize Milla, to the point of obsession, and I don't fault him for that because she is truly amazing and inspiring and he needed someone to look up to to keep him sane, but this led him to often neglect considering the feelings of the others, which is understandable, but not ok.
He eventually grows up, though! And though he sometimes still makes jabs at Leia, they sound less aggressive and more like casual friendly banter now.
I love who he becomes in the end and in X2, and it's all the more worthwhile because of how insufferable he could be in the first game.
@Ismeria: agree so much. |
Yeah, pretty much this.
Actually reading this made me think about why I didn't really dislike Jude that much. I was too busy liking Leia. XD
I kept thinking, what a sweetheart she is. She's so other centered and really cares about Jude. No matter how sad she is that Jude doesn't return her feelings she still wants to protect him and be his friend no matter what. Doesn't even lash out at others and keeps a cheery face despite whatever bitterness she might be feeling. She's very considerate and respectful of the right for other people to feel for who they want to.
So um, Leia love blinded the Jude lack of to me. XP
I didn't really think about his jerky moments more until people started posting about it.
Regarding Jude more with Milla and main character status. Two things. One, despite the negatives I thought about it (as we all have been pointing out), there were things I did like how were handled. Such as how Jude was a good influence on Milla about not being so quick to end things/jump into a fight and being more thoughtful of individuals (like with the spirits in the cavern for example).
Milla may be a protective God of hope who loves humanity and spirits. But at the start she did not have a relationship with the former until Jude and the party began traveling with her. Personally, if you want to be a benevolent God who really cares for people, I think you should know them beyond the nature of their species and invest in what they go through (which is what she does).
So not saying everything about them was badly written or without good. There was a lot I liked and understood about why it was the way it was (like what Yume_Hanabi said about Jude). Two, the whole group helped her with this (such as Elize telling Milla to think about Rowen's feeling concerning Natchigal). Which goes back to how I felt the party dynamics looked uneven to me for Jude since he was more focused on Milla's affect on him for the most part. The only other character I felt came close was Alvin initially (he's not a very positive character though). Milla's relationship to the group visibly felt more two-sided at a better pace. Jude's party dynamic gets a lot better, but still it felt too fast at times later on. Which is a little dissapointing.
(Again, I might change my mind on some things when I play Jude side).
| sistaofpeace1 wrote: |
If Luke never matured in Abyss at all, I certainly would not have liked him. But fortunately the entire game pretty much revolves around his coming-of-age.
/late to the party |
This is pretty much the big difference that makes me not compare the two in this regard. I think for people who like/don't mind Luke a lot but dislike Jude might come down to what I posted earlier about the way Jude was handled. Both are considered jerks in their games by people but the difference is that in Luke's game it was acknowledged in-game a lot during his development while in Jude's game, not only is it barely (if at all) acknowledged, but his development to grow past it takes about 2/3 of the game, while for Luke it took around only 1/3 from the start.
I think it's easier to accept and even like a very flawed character if the narrative and the other characters in the story are shown acknowledging those flaws and portraying it in a bad light.
Basically, it sadly felt like Jude got neglected in ways the other party members didn't despite being the other main character. It seemed like his major focus for a long time was 1) his attachment to Milla and 2) how he had a lot of potential and needed to grow up more but wasn't due to leaning on Milla and feeling like a fish out of water for most of the game. =/
It wasn't until Milla was booted out and Leia went through what she did did Jude start taking an active role suited for a main character/the other leader. Probably would have been better for most people if there were more situations for Jude to stand out more and show interest in things that were outside of Milla much earlier on.
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a745
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:35 am Post subject: |
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I'm one of the few people who actually like Jude, but I guess my like for him is a matter of preference, not a matter of complete acceptance for his character. Though I agree a bit with Meowzy about the hate for Jude being a bit... well, too much. I do understand where people come from when it comes to hating him, though.
But to be honest, I do have a bit of hate for some of the Tales characters mentioned in the previous pages, but any reason I have for not hating them, well, makes the hate completely fade: Luke because they gave him proper development after being such a d*** to everyone in the beginning of the game; Senel because it was a traumatizing thing for him, having the girl he loved wait (or so he believes) for him for three years in dismay. It's understandable from a psychological and a psychiatric point of view; Jude, mainly because it was part of him growing up or being inexperienced in those matters. Him being a better person in Xillia 2 was enough for me, though I guess people won't see that much with only Xillia getting localized.
What I don't like however, is this: I've come across some Tales fans who are actually already hating on Jude mainly because someone who's played the game told them he sucked, but they themselves haven't even played the game for themselves. At least give the guy a bit of a chance.
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Meowzy
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| a745 wrote: | | What I don't like however, is this: I've come across some Tales fans who are actually already hating on Jude mainly because someone who's played the game told them he sucked, but they themselves haven't even played the game for themselves. At least give the guy a bit of a chance. |
Yes, this. Exactly this. Jude hate is all over the board like a virus, influencing people who've never even played the game. Reasons given ranging from "He's the worst person ever (to Leia)" to "his voice is terrible". People are wishing he'd die just because he's not as nice (to Leia) as he could be.
Let's face it, a lot of the Jude hateboners are completely exaggerated and I really wish the hate would be toned down. I get not liking characters- hell, I can't stand Marta Lualdi, but that's no reason to continuously go around bashing her violently at every opportunity.
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Falcom
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 569
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Also agrees that Jude hate is over-exaggerated. A lot of people just bandwagon the Jude hate, I mean sure there are reasons, but it's still pretty damn ridiculous.
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Radge
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
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Location: Town of Duwang
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Jude's bright side: He's probably the character most first time players will enjoy playing as anyway.
X1 Shouha is OP
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Aggression
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Radge wrote: | Jude's bright side: He's probably the character most first time players will enjoy playing as anyway.
X1 Shouha is OP |
I like Jude's outfit. That is my addition to this thread.
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Crystal Power
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 1517
Location: Far Away
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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I love Jude, and I doubt my opinion on him will change because he makes a few mistakes. While Luke made multiple mistakes. And what people are saying about him doesn't sound to bad. They made it like he murdered Liea...
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Sunny
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yume made a great post, looks like I don't have to lift a finger this time.
I would have seen this sooner but I kept forgetting that Xillia has its own board now.
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