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rothcol_shepard
Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 475
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 Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| JiCi wrote: | | That's if the devs have in mind to make an International release to begin with. Capcom's EX Troopers was always planned as a Japan-exclusive game, so of course they made the game like that. |
Even if it was, why would you program it in a way that bars any other publisher who is willing to take the risk to localize it for you, earning you money at their expense?
Its a basic rule of game development, you NEVER program the game in a way that makes it difficult to change voice/text files, no professional developers do this. |
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BlueFuji
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Accelerator wrote: | | Arrei wrote: | I think a lot of us have already experienced this feeling with things like ToS2 and The First Strike?
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Yeah, this is basically what I'm saying. It doesn't matter how into the role Beacock gets, he will never be Lloyd to me(though neither will his seiyuu really.) That's how I felt about Asbel, and about Milla, etc. Like, if EU ToS DotnW somehow got the original voice actors for the game I would sure as **** get that over the American version. No other Milla will ever be Milla to me; I need Sawashiro for that role, like I need Sakurai for Asbel, or Menville for Lloyd. There are very few times when the voice actor of the opposite language(of the track I prefer, english or JP) fits perfectly for me(like Pascal, or Kanji), but uh, I really don't have much hope for Milla especially when she's already been voiced by one of my favorite seiyuu.
And it's not really a chance I want to wager 59 bucks on with a **** load of other games i need to buy right now. |
No it's not. Your saying a rendition you haven't even heard will never be as good when we haven't even heard it beyond enough minutes you can count on a single hand. (This is the sort of logic youtube commenters have man  ) To say that it won't at all doesn't make sense whatsoever. That's great you love the VA's performances and get attached, but who knows how good the dub will be? Not you, nor me. You touched on this aspect before. It's incredibly childish to have such train of thought to judge the whole aspects with so little we have atm.
Beacock had 2 games for us to judge on, and he came nowhere near as good as Scott Robin Menville, or his Japanese VA, same goes for Asbel with his game. So you have high standards/shoes for the english VA's to fill, thats what it's basically coming down and you don't think certain ones will fill them based on whats happened with Asbel in the past.
Then you can be one of those people who go and watch clips online somewhere of it lol.
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Accelerator
Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 6991
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, a rendition I've never heard will never be as good because one of the things appealing most to me about the game was Milla's voice. I could just listen to Miyuki Sawashiro talk all day.
I didn't even really want to listen to English Milla talk at all in those clips!
I'm not judging the whole thing, I'm just not really that interested or impressed by the english voice. Like I said, there's always a slim chance that something amazing could be pulled off, but right now I really have 0 indication to believe that it will.
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Dr. Casey
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 2479
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| BlueFuji wrote: | Theres an obvious difference between "I really found Sawashiro's Milla such an amazing, and admirable aspect about her character that I thoroughly enjoyed everybit of." (This is something understandable,and something I personally have with Troy Bakers Yuri.)
VS.
"Sawashiro's performance as Milla is superb, and cancels out all who try to portray her character in any sort of fashion out." (This dun sound right man.) |
I don't think there's a need to water down his statement further when what he said is reasonable and inoffensive to begin with; it's not like he said that the Japanese voices are factually and objectively better, just that they're the versions he's become attached to. |
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BlueFuji
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Accelerator wrote: | Yeah, a rendition I've never heard will never be as good because one of the things appealing most to me about the game was Milla's voice. I could just listen to Miyuki Sawashiro talk all day.
I didn't even really want to listen to English Milla talk at all in those clips!
I'm not judging the whole thing, I'm just not really that interested or impressed by the english voice. Like I said, there's always a slim chance that something amazing could be pulled off, but right now I really have 0 indication to believe that it will. |
Aight man, fair enough.
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Sunleader
Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Anyone has the Right to Prefer something.
Thats called Personal Taste.
I also cancelt my Tales of Xillia Order.
Luckily I had not yet Ordered an PS3 since I planned to buy one pretty much only for Tales of Xillia.....
Reasons are quite simple.
I saw some Trailers for the English Voicing.
And being Honest its horrible.
Not only are they changing the Character Image. They are also badly Synced.
Well this is of course to be expectet.
English and Japanese are two completly different Languages after all.
The Grammar is nearly completly reversed.
So any Simple Sentence and the Characters Reactions are totally off.
In the end your off with an Choice to either Sacrifice the Syncro for the Original Meaning and Feeling. Or you Sacrifice the Original Text to match it into an Syncro.
On top of that there is the natural noance on Languages.
Any Language has some Natural Tone to it and thus also an Natural Feeling in it.
German for example Sounds pretty Serios to most non Native German Speakers. When you hear it you mostly think that whatever is being said must be really Importand.
Russian for example sounds pretty Aggressive to me. Whenever I hear my Friend (hes from Eastern Germany) Talk Russian even knowing hes saying something completly normal I friggin get the feeling that hes about to kill someone ^^
Japanese has this Reserved and Careful Tone in it.
The Grammar which tends to explain the subject before actually naming it makes it feel like the Person is really thinking about it carefully.
English usually has an very Cool Tone to it. When I talk to Friends from Canada or NA you usually get this untouched feeling like nothing could shake him the slightest.
He can friggin tell you about the Biggest Catastrophe and you still somehow dont feel like its bothering him at all.
Now this is How I as German feel
Other People from other Nations might feel Different from this of course 
After all the actual Feeling you have hearing something depends on what your used to.
However here is the Problem again.
English Language and Japanese Language are completly Different
They give an completly Different Feeling
And this is an Deadly Sin to an Game which is popular due to some High End Technology like Graphics or Controls but mainly due to the extensive Story it covers.
The Characters which carry the Story are an very Importand Milestone in this.
And bluntly said English is just not matching into it.
Greetz Sun
ps I agree with the Thread Opener
Voices must be Heard on this.
I made an Account in the Forum for this Post (tough I might stay for a while ^^)
I dont know what the hell is going on in the Heads of Namco to even consider Releasing this Game without the Original Voices.
But one thing is for Sure.
This might put Sales down by Half.
80% of Buyers for Tales Games are Anime Fans after all
and over Half of the Anime Fan Community prefer Subs over Dubs for a Good Reason ....
edit:
Well with the Official Response being that there wont be Japanese Dub Available
Thats pretty much making sure I.ll never buy that Game.
Guess I.ll wait for an working PS3 Emulator and Fanmade Subs on an Japanese Version of the Game.
Too bad.... |
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Arrei
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 541
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Ugh. I want to make it clear I have nothing against people who prefer subs and whatnot, but I can't just let this one go. Opinions will be opinions, but the ignorance, argh.
Do you realize...
...you are evaluating their entire performance on two forty second videos that barely contain any lines and don't even feature any cutscene voicing?
...the corner cut-ins weren't synced to the original dialogue to begin with?
...that your perception of the nuances behind different languages is horrifically ignorant, as if a language having different nuances means it is incapable of expressing more than the handful of emotions "suited" for that language, especially when one language is one you don't even understand? I'd like to see you tell someone Norio Wakamoto sounds "reserved and careful".
...that you are vastly overestimating the clout possessed by people who are so irrational as to get whipped into a frothing frenzy over not having dual audio in a series that has never had dual audio? |
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Sunleader
Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Arrei wrote: | Ugh. I want to make it clear I have nothing against people who prefer subs and whatnot, but I can't just let this one go. Opinions will be opinions, but the ignorance, argh.
Do you realize...
...you are evaluating their entire performance on two forty second videos that barely contain any lines and don't even feature any cutscene voicing?
...the corner cut-ins weren't synced to the original dialogue to begin with?
...that your perception of the nuances behind different languages is horrifically ignorant, as if a language having different nuances means it is incapable of expressing more than the handful of emotions "suited" for that language, especially when one language is one you don't even understand? I'd like to see you tell someone Norio Wakamoto sounds "reserved and careful".
...that you are vastly overestimating the clout possessed by people who are so irrational as to get whipped into a frothing frenzy over not having dual audio in a series that has never had dual audio? |
1.
Yes I realize this Matey.
Unfortunately 40 Seconds are alot of Text to be Spoken.
And Considering that just 40 Seconds already make me wanna Puke its definetly enough to know that this is NOT acceptable for me.
2.
Didnt know that but also dont really care.
In the First Place its not really the Sync but the Feeling its giving me.
As I said main Selling Point of Tales Series was always the Story and Characters.
And theyre killing it.....
3.
My Feelings on something are Ignorant ?
Lol matey thats the most Ignorant statement I ever read.
I cant help how I feel when I hear something matey.
So I dont have the right to feel something when I hear certain things ???
Your nuts matey.
Sorry to tell you.
But what and how I feel when I hear something is entirely up to me.
Its nothing of your Concern and nothing you can even argue with matey.
However in the First Place I said clearly that this is what I feel.
Others might feel different about it.
The Point however is matey that even saying the exactly same Sentence feels very Different in English than it does in Japanese.
4.
Lol matey thats one Hell of an Example to Choose
Norio Wakamoto is an Unicum among Voice Actors.
Someone with no Casting and no Schooling in Voice Acting.
Picked up on the Street due to his Incredible Voice.
The Trump Card of Anime and Movies to Impersonate an Character who of all things doesnt carry this reserved Tone.
While he of course Proves that not every Japanese sounds Reserved.
His Popularity and Main Selling point is Perfect Proof of what I said matey.
Hes an widely wanted Voice Actor due to the Fact that his tone of Voice is so Incredible Unique in Japan matey.....
5.
Irrational ????
Ehm matey maybe you failed to understand some simple piece of Truth here.
They are an Company trying to Earn Money by selling something.
We are the Customers Paying Money for the Product we want.
And theres the Core of it matey.
What is Irrational about not Buying something thats not what I want ???
You see several Months ago when I decided on buying an PS3 along with ToX I checked on the Internet.
Back then it was said that the Game will be Original Soundtrack with 5 Languages Subtitles for Europe
Now suddenly its English Dub ?
So I am Irrational for retracting my Buy Order and Voicing my Dissent about this ????
If you Ordered an Green Carpet for you Living Room
And then get Told "Well we will only deliver an Yellow Carpet"
Would you just Pay them for the Yellow Carpet despite your not even liking yellow ?
Now this is the Epitome of Ignorance Matey.
Everyone and Anyone has the Right to decide for himself what they want to Buy and what they dont want to Buy matey.
I dont want to Buy an ToX Game with English Dubs.
And Believe me theres Tons of People thinking the same matey.
Overestimation ?
Look over Google matey.
Major part of all Google Entrys relatet to ToX are complaints and Discussions about the English Dub decision.
Dont underestimate the Stubborness of Anime Fans matey.
There is an Reason that your hardly finding any Anime DVDs without the Original Dubs out on the Market anymore.
If you want to sell something you got to offer what the Fans want matey.
Breaking that Basic Rule is an Death Sentence for any Product matey.
And I can Guarantee you this.
Tales of Xillia with only English Dubs will hardly earn half of the Sales that were estimated when it was still assumed to be Japanese Dubbed matey.
6.
Also your getting something wrong here matey.
Dual Audio is the Option we think to be the Best Solution here matey.
You call us Ignorant but unlike you matey we are at least not Ignorant enough to Demand an Japanese Dub Version and spitting into the face of those who might prefer English Subs matey.
Of course someone Ignoratn enough to Deny someone the right to have his own biased Feelings on something is unlikely to even understand something like this but well.
And matey
The Game didnt possess Dual Audio Before is an really poor argument.
It didnt possess English Dubs before as well did it ????
If Dual Audio is too expensive or Impossible.
Than I prefer an English Subbed/Japenese Dubbed Game far over an English Dubbed Game matey.
I am not Paying for something I dislike matey.
English Dubbed Anime Games or Animes are such an thing matey.
(By the way for most Shooter Games I prefer English Dubs over even my Native Language Dubs) ^^
Greetz Sun
ps matey
I called you Ignorant quite a few times in my Post matey.
Hopefully you.ll understand the hint I wantet to give you here.
Pls be careful when dashing out Accusitions like this.
Ignorance means to ignore your surroundings or to deny other peoples opinions.
There is no Ignorance in having your own Opinion matey. |
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Arrei
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 541
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Just because you can claim I'm ignorant does not mean you aren't. This isn't as simple as "feelings".
You take languages you do not understand, paint them with one "feeling" each, and then say that single feeling does not "match" the intended tone. Languages do not simply "not fit" a tone. All of our languages have, for centuries, been used to convey any assortment of tones and feelings, and to try to say an entire language does not fit a tone can be nothing but ignorant.
You feel one language sounds nicer than another? Fine. But don't start slinging around statements like calling using English in a Japanese game a sin. Now you're just disregarding the opposite opinion after saying we can all have our different opinions.
Don't misread my points, either. I am not telling you how to spend your money. I am not saying it's irrational to not buy something that does not have something you want.
No, I'm saying it's irrational to come into a series that has NEVER HAD THAT THING YOU WANT, and then start throwing a fit because it doesn't have that thing. The kind of people who are so extreme about dual audio that they'd refuse to buy a game because of dual audio... would not be here to become lost sales in the first place.
And it was NEVER said the game would use the original soundtrack. I don't know who told you that, but they were talking out of their arse.
All they said is that they would see if they could get dual audio without compromising the rest of the localization, because they know there's some crowd that would really appreciate that. That's it. No promises, no guarantees. Just that they would try. Clearly, trying wasn't enough.
And now I'm going to sleep. |
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Yume Hanabi
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 5822
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Your posts are a Deadly Sin (tm) against the English language.
Are you making them hard to read on purpose? >_>
Your facts about Wakamoto are wrong btw, if you think there was no casting.
Also lol "intended tone" when, like, how many Xillia characters are "reserved" in the Japanese game? Are you trying to convince me that Milla sounds reserved? Leia? Alvin? Yeaaah, no.
Also what Arrei said.
This is because of people like you that I'm always afraid to say I'd like dual audio... You're not helping the cause, you know.
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~Find my Tales of translations on LJ or on Tumblr~
| Colour wrote: | BUT THERE'S SO MUCH WRONG
WITH DEVELOPING IT IN THE WOMB
AND HAVING A WATCH IN A FREAKING UTERUS |
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Sunleader
Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Arrei wrote: | Just because you can claim I'm ignorant does not mean you aren't. This isn't as simple as "feelings".
You take languages you do not understand, paint them with one "feeling" each, and then say that single feeling does not "match" the intended tone. Languages do not simply "not fit" a tone. All of our languages have, for centuries, been used to convey any assortment of tones and feelings, and to try to say an entire language does not fit a tone can be nothing but ignorant.
You feel one language sounds nicer than another? Fine. But don't start slinging around statements like calling using English in a Japanese game a sin. Now you're just disregarding the opposite opinion after saying we can all have our different opinions.
Don't misread my points, either. I am not telling you how to spend your money. I am not saying it's irrational to not buy something that does not have something you want.
No, I'm saying it's irrational to come into a series that has NEVER HAD THAT THING YOU WANT, and then start throwing a fit because it doesn't have that thing. The kind of people who are so extreme about dual audio that they'd refuse to buy a game because of dual audio... would not be here to become lost sales in the first place.
And it was NEVER said the game would use the original soundtrack. I don't know who told you that, but they were talking out of their arse.
All they said is that they would see if they could get dual audio without compromising the rest of the localization, because they know there's some crowd that would really appreciate that. That's it. No promises, no guarantees. Just that they would try. Clearly, trying wasn't enough.
And now I'm going to sleep. |
I.ll ask this Straight even on the Risk of being Rude here.
But are you really not getting it or are you purposely ignoring it ????
1.
I talked about what I feel matey.
As easy as that.
Someone like you which completly discards other Peoples Feelings and/or their Right to actually feel different from you is ten times more Ignorant than anything I ever said in my Life matey.
2.
Languages I dont understand is quite the statement matey.
I am German so I understand German
I got Friends from East Germany and the Doctor I would trust my life to is Russian matey. I heard Russian in Native and as Learned English so I think I am allowed to have opinion on how it sounds matey.
I Speak English as you can see matey so I guess I also have an right to have an feeling about this dont I ????
I have Watched Anime for over 10 Years and I talked with alot of Japanese People as well as with People trying to Learn Japanese.
By now its an very Familiar Tone to me matey.
Much more Familiar than English.
And I think that means something in Internet matey.
Its true that I dont speak all Languages myself matey
But I can actually understand most Context of an Japanese Conversation
And I.ll at least differeniate Russian from other Languages as well as being able to understand the most basic requirements.
3.
Those Languages have been used to Convey Feelings and Assortment for People Speaking the Same Language.
More Importandly for People being used to the same Culture matey.
German Language for example comes from an Culture which Values Power and Respect.
Its logical that it would give other a Feeling of Seriosness when a German talks to them.
Because Germans can be pissed pretty fast if they get the feeling your not taking em Serios.
Do you know this Biased thinking that Germans dont understand Jokes ?
Its got an Reason matey.
When US People Approach Germans in their usual Warm and Welcoming Way most Germans feel like theyre played for Fools.
Thats why they get agitatet.
At the Same time US People Approached by Germans which offer an Strong Handshake and an Earnest Tone often feel Challenged and Provoked.
Thats leading to this little Bias here matey.
Of course inside you own Language things are different.
I dont take everything another German tells me totally serios as well matey.
Its an feeling from someone who has an different culture than you matey.
As I said someone from Russia for example feels completly different about German Language than an British Person for Example matey.
Japanese are usually very careful not to Insult or Provoke others.
They are very Polite if you want.
Something often causing trouble with Americans as well.
Americans are often Approaching people Openly and Bluntly this is not something bad by the way.
its simply their Culture.
But to others its an strange appearance.
You know I got Realitves in the USA.
Every Few Years I am going there a few Weeks on Holidays.
And matey its an difference like Heaven and Earth.
People knowing each other, Greeting each other, Talking and even Touching each other on the Street.
Holy Crap when I went there for the First Time I walked over the Street to take a look around the City.
And someone who just walked by startet to talk to me.
Asking me where I am from and when I moved there and other stuff.
I was totally thrown off by this.
Germans would never just bluntly engage an Stranger and start Asking him stuff.
The other way Around I can imagine how it must feel for an American when he Walks a Street in some smaller German City when he meets people on the Street which dont even look at them when passing them on the same paveway.
There is nothing wrong with this and nothing judgind with this matey
Its simply that I MYSELF feel this way matey
And I am not alone with this matey.
A Different Language simply Feels Different to someone matey.
For an Russian the German Language is as Strange as the Russian Language is for someone From Canada matey.
Nothing bad about it.
But its everyones own Decision wether they like it or not.
And you got no right to compromise this matey.
4.
I never called the Usage of English in an Japanese Game a Sin matey.
I said its an Deadly Sin for an Company to Ignore the Wishes of their Customers.
In this case this Wish is the Japanese Original Dubs of an Story which is mainly attracting Anime Fans.
By the way its not a Sin in the Meaning of Sin but one for an Company
Simply said it is an grave mistake in marketing tactics.
Its bad for Sales.
Its not an Good Decision considering the Targeted Group of Customers.
Dont turn around words matey .....
Its Pitiful if people try to avoid the Topic by such sidehits.
5.
Now your not making Sense.
So Tales of Xillia never had Japanese Dub ????
As I said matey.
I dont care for Dual Audio in the Slightest.
I want the Original Dubs matey.
The Original Japanese Dubs Spoken in the Game which I Preordered.
Not some Makeshift English Dubs which were Announced after I had already decided to Buy the Game matey......
I dont know why the **** your so caught up on the Dual Audio thing.
Nobody of the People cares about Dual Audio.
Reason they all say they wont Buy it is because they want the Original Japanese Dub matey.
And thats the main Selling Point here matey.
Tales Series is living on its Story and Characters.
And Main Part of People Buying it are Anime Fans which want to Play this Story and the Characters.
And this incredible Large Part is totally offensed by this because they are now presentet completly different feelings and Characters.
And for most it doesnt feel right matey....
And thus are the Buyers lost here matey.
6.
And well matey Fact is if you Check Google you will see there are tons of Complaints about this.
Tons of potential Buyers which have now rescinded their Preorders and Buying Plans.
Its got nothing to do with Extremism matey.
The Announced Product was an EU Version with 5 Languages Localizations in TEXTs
Nobody ever talked about an English Dub.
The Moment they suddenly did the Dissenting Voices have grown loud.
And I am with them.
No Japanese Dub on the Game ?
No money from me!
As Easy as that.
Greetz |
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Tenshigami
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 614
Location: On a journey to another world.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Oh god I thought we were finally done with this topic. So much for that.
| Yume Hanabi wrote: | | This is because of people like you that I'm always afraid to say I'd like dual audio... You're not helping the cause, you know. |
It's okay to like or even want dual audio, Yume. It's another thing to outright demand it while completely ignoring all valid reasons provided as to why they haven't done it yet.
I honestly don't see dual audio as even a remote possibility until the next title that is yet to be announced in Japan, because they likely didn't secure the rights to use the Japanese voice overs outside of Japan for Xillia OR Xillia 2. Don't fool yourselves folks - it's not just Xillia, but Xillia 2's already out in Japan, meaning the Japanese voice acting is already done and a contract has already been signed. Once that's done, there's not really any changing it if they didn't allow themselves the rights to use the audio in Japan so stop whining. Nobody here can do anything about it either so complaining to us isn't going to solve anything. And neither is not buying the western release.
If you're not going to buy it because there's no dual audio then be my guest. Just don't expect us to put up with you for very long if you're going to be an elitist jerk about it.
I put up with this thread for an entire 8 pages when it first appeared, but it's impossible to have a proper discussion when one side selectively ignores valid points that go against their agenda.
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Yume Hanabi
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 5822
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe we'd consider you less ignorant on the subject of language if you did more than just spout stereotypes.
Anyway.
| Quote: | | Its bad for Sales. |
No it's not. Including dual audio in games for which it was not planned from the beginning would cost more than it'd profit them. Simple as that. They're not holding it back for the sake of annoying us. They just have other priorities (like, oh, I don't know, releasing the next main game with little or no delay, for example).
| Quote: | The Announced Product was an EU Version with 5 Languages Localizations in TEXTs
Nobody ever talked about an English Dub. |
They announced multi-5 as opposed to the usual multi-3 for the TEXT. Not the audio. The audio was always going to be in English. That announcement was just to say that they were adding Spanish and Italian to their usual tranlation practices. It's your own fault for assuming.
btw does "matey" mean anything in German? Why do you add it to almost all of your sentences? 
_________________
~Find my Tales of translations on LJ or on Tumblr~
| Colour wrote: | BUT THERE'S SO MUCH WRONG
WITH DEVELOPING IT IN THE WOMB
AND HAVING A WATCH IN A FREAKING UTERUS |
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Arn
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1073
Location: The Bird Chirps, I Sing
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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too much tl;dr
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Dice
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1585
Location: Neverland (Canada)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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You can't change the feelings of people who live in such a small bubble. Let it go.
I'm mostly *shocked* dual-audio has become such a "thing" in what feels like overnight.
Anyways, let them cancel. THeir loss..
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