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Accelerator
Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 6967
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 Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Sunny is right, though. The problem with that scene is that the you're not supposed to think ill of Luke or Jade; you're just supposed to laugh along with them. It's the spa scene. It's supposed to be funny. They're supposed to be jerks in the same way that Zelos is when he peeks on women or something.
But when you know why Guy has that phobia, it just makes every gag around his fear of women really stupid because there's nothing actually funny about it even if the game does try and play the "wacky time" music during it.
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Kajitani-Eizan
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:03 am Post subject: |
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i just re-watched it, and i'm not sure where you're getting this from. luke and jade were sort of being dicks and you are supposed to think that. i mean, c'mon, luke just randomly kicks guy into the water and runs off. are we supposed to think luke is a really great guy for doing that specific action?
the part that's funny (by japanese standards, anyway) is more guy's flustered and tactless responses to the girls' questions.
as for their motivations, friends play pranks on each other sometimes. just because guy has a fear of women doesn't mean it's now a Sacred and Holy Phobia that We Must Be Super Serious about All the Time. he has mostly gotten over immediate psychological trauma, as in, he doesn't get super depressed and withdrawn any time a girl accidentally touches him. his reaction is mostly physical at this point. so it's not a huge deal to thrust him into a situation like that. they are interested in helping him out by testing his limits.
in response to your example, if you had a fear of spiders, i wouldn't throw one onto you... that would be a dick move. but i might put one on a piece of paper or in a container and move it towards you. are you seriously saying that doing so would be a Super Insensitive Unacceptable Horrible thing to do?
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Mint-III
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Accelerator
Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 6967
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:07 am Post subject: |
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uh, no? Of course we're not supposed to think they're being "good guys." But the key point is that it's meant to be funny.
When picking on Guy because of his fear of women due to having countless maids slaughtered on top of him isn't really funny no matter how you slice it, and is pretty awful of Luke in particular given **** knows how many issues he has.
It's just a poorly written scene and gag period. There's really nothing funny to take away from it whenever it's shown because it's just so tasteless on both the developers and the party's part.
also you really can't compare a fear of spiders to a childhood trauma of having countless women you care about be slaughtered on top of you, buried under their bodies. And yeah, if I had a fear of spiders, I really would think it's a dick move to go out of your way to expose one to me, especially out of nowhere
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Slivius
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1533
Location: Nazdrovje!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| siphry wrote: | | it's just like when we read The Old Man and the Sea and claim it's about Jesus when Hemingway was like SHUT UP IT'S NOT. It could mean one thing to somebody, and one thing to somebody else. |
I seriously never even once connected The Old Man and the Sea to anything religious...
I really liked the book though.
| Scrawlers wrote: | | I mean, case in point, the last threads I participated in before the timewarp were the Tales Series character beauty contests, or whatever they were called. (The favorite male character, favorite female character ones.) |
I remember you now!
OT:
Actually, Guy doesn't seem to mind it all that much.
On the other hand, pretty much everyone in Abyss is a dick, so the whole adventure might've numbed him down a lot.
What I find more disturbing is that the cast pretty much forced Luke to kill someone at the start of the game while he didn't want to at all. He could've easily focussed his fighting style on knocking people unconcious instead of killing them. Might've made the game better too.
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Also known as Sliv, Slivvie, Quilvius, Slivendiferious, and slivijizzisious
| Ruilus wrote: | | Holy hell. Yesterday was a blur of wine, whiskey and brandy. I can't remember where I left my sofa. |
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Dr. Casey
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 2478
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Kajitani-Eizan wrote: | | in response to your example, if you had a fear of spiders, i wouldn't throw one onto you... that would be a dick move. but i might put one on a piece of paper or in a container and move it towards you. are you seriously saying that doing so would be a Super Insensitive Unacceptable Horrible thing to do? |
It's not that it would be a super horrible thing to do so much as it wouldn't be your place to do so. If I wanted to get over my fear, then I could try to do so myself on my own terms, but otherwise it's really nobody's business and I'd find it pretty annoying for my friends to force random moments of exposure therapy on me even if their intentions were good. |
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Sunny
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 9745
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Casey wrote: | | Kajitani-Eizan wrote: | | in response to your example, if you had a fear of spiders, i wouldn't throw one onto you... that would be a dick move. but i might put one on a piece of paper or in a container and move it towards you. are you seriously saying that doing so would be a Super Insensitive Unacceptable Horrible thing to do? |
It's not that it would be a super horrible thing to do so much as it wouldn't be your place to do so. If I wanted to get over my fear, then I could try to do so myself on my own terms, but otherwise it's really nobody's business and I'd find it pretty annoying for my friends to force random moments of exposure therapy on me even if their intentions were good. |
Exactly.
Also Kaiji-whatever you're interpretting the scene too deeply on your own like what Scrawlers did. They're "trying to help him" you say? Looks more like they're playing on his phobia for their own entertainment. And even if they wanted to help him with his phobia it's still not their place to do it like THAT, as Casey with a Ph.D just explained.
| Slivius wrote: | | What I find more disturbing is that the cast pretty much forced Luke to kill someone at the start of the game while he didn't want to at all. He could've easily focussed his fighting style on knocking people unconcious instead of killing them. Might've made the game better too. |
Sorry bro I can't get behind that idea because it would be Kira Yamato/Kio Asuno all over again and that was annoying as hell. It works well with Rurounin Kenshin because he's already one of the best swordsmen who can afford to risk his life in exchange for not killing, which by the way is his way of repenting for himself. It also makes the fights more interesting because he's trying not to revert to Battousai while facing high-level enemies.
It would not work for Luke because he's too inexperienced. Not to mention his first kill is part of Luke's development. That is, being exposed to the realities of the world outside. Death is a fact of life in Abyss and to have him be a non-lethalist would clash way too hard.
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Suikoden2
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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Location: Within Dr. Casey's imagination.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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It's just a scene from a game with plentiful amounts of awkward writing and rife with jerkasses.
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Kajitani-Eizan
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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i don't know, maybe i'm just not so sensitive to these things. it's not "not their place" for friends to do things like this. you have to keep in mind also the culture difference; tales was written from a japanese cultural mindset. people tend to be closer over there than over here where everyone has their own personal space that you absolutely are not supposed to enter or whatever.
there's no denying that luke and especially jade probably were doing it partially for their own amusement, but also because they were JUST TALKING about his condition and wanted to see if guy could handle it. guy agreed to SOMETHING, because jade suggested they try something and then in the next scene we see them standing near the girls. he probably wasn't informed that he was going to be kicked into the water with them, but he probably agreed to go talk to them or something.
like, you're trying to make a big deal out of how Super Serious his phobia is and how it's inviolable as a result, but i'm just not seeing it. yeah, it stems from a really tragic past. that doesn't mean it's a huge deal right now. it would be if he hasn't mostly gotten over it, but he has. we know this because he (presumably) agreed to go along with some sort of plan to test his limits, just not one that extreme. people make racist jokes all the time. are they funny? yes. are they insensitive? sorta, yeah. are they Oh My God Stunned Silence How Can You Dare to Say Such a Thing When There Is Such a Tragic and Sensitive History behind That unfunny? not usually, no.
perhaps a different, Godwin approach: do you think it's inappropriate to show a swastika to a Holocaust survivor? not the Nazi swastika, but the eastern one, a symbol of good luck, blessings, and fortune. if such a symbol comes up on a greeting card, or during a holiday celebration, or something like that, is it like Oh My God We Need to Make Sure They Never See Anything Like That? or is it pretty okay? (this is assuming you know it's not like they go into shock or anything whenever they see a swastika)
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Mint-III
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Lewnatic
Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 7246
Location: Just when you thought I couldn't get any better...it happened.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone finds inappropriate things amusing.
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Aggression
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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No........... it's only a series about a bunch of children using their super powers to kill millions of people for the sake of peace.
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Slivius
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1533
Location: Nazdrovje!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunny wrote: | | Not to mention his first kill is part of Luke's development. That is, being exposed to the realities of the world outside. Death is a fact of life in Abyss and to have him be a non-lethalist would clash way too hard. |
I still feel like they could've handled it much better. It didn't have to be so...
cruel...
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| Ruilus wrote: | | Holy hell. Yesterday was a blur of wine, whiskey and brandy. I can't remember where I left my sofa. |
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