Spoony finished his PTSD Arc and is reviewing FFXIII now
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Kajitani-Eizan



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curimuch wrote:
There is no thinking required for ff13 stop.


braindead200 wrote:
I had to think about battles in XIII because I was vastly underleveled.


this. did you guys wait until postgame to do archlyte or what? if you challenge the harder battles in chapter 11 itself, you'll find yourself having to put a bit more effort into battles than just "hurr i need to heal now hurr i need to attack now". this was literally the entire crux of the gameplay. there were like 8 chapters of tutorial and hallways to prep you for chapters 9/11/12/13. you ruined it for yourself if you didn't play the gameplay.

Accelerator wrote:
FFXIII's AI is actually decent enough that autobattle wins EVERYTHING if they're set to the right Paradigm


indeed, and after using manual commands most of the game, i actually started using autobattle about half the time whenever i knew it would do what i wanted it to in less time. i didn't find it any less engaging because it's essentially like setting up your gambits in XII. the gambits are part of the gameplay; if you didn't like setting them up and then watching them play out (and interrupting to do a custom action in between if needed) then it wasn't the game for you.

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Anyway, Curi pretty much nailed it. I love the music in both XIII and 2 and I like the characters enough that I did order XIII-2. I just really don't like it as a game and even less as a final fantasy. At least XIII-2 seems a bit more FF to me with it's goofy characters, comically cute moogle and hilarious "2deep4u" super edgy bishounen antagonist


actually i think XIII-2 is much better as a game. it's kind of silly but the plot is introduced better iirc and feels more interesting/engaging/non-nonsensical from the beginning. also, noel is a pretty cool guy, doesn't afraid of anything, etc. main issue is poor leveling balance/too easy (an issue they avoided in XIII using the chapter system with its exponentially increasing EXP requirements).
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Accelerator



Joined: 04 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't do any extra content, to be honest

but you can get through the entire main game with autobattle. that is just embarassing especially when the game encourages you to use it via scans and pretty decent AI
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braindead200



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P3 and P4 gameplay was actually very similar to XIII if you think about it.
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Zacewing



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Libra is meant for finding weaknesses, so of course it helps your AI choose commands more intelligently. It's not like Libra doesn't help you choose commands more intelligently when you use regular commands; you need to know weaknesses to play both Commando and Ravager effectively. Libra's function is literally the exact same as P3's analyse function. I don't see how that encourages the use of auto-battle when it still helps you just fine if you don't use auto-battle.
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Suikoden2



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there is a game that "plays" the game for you for a large of majority of the game, there's a problem.
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braindead200



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suikoden2 wrote:
If there is a game that "plays" the game for you for a large of majority of the game, there's a problem.


I don't think you were reading the posts in this thread
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Suikoden2



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

braindead200 wrote:
Suikoden2 wrote:
If there is a game that "plays" the game for you for a large of majority of the game, there's a problem.


I don't think you were reading the posts in this thread

No I've been reading em. I'm just saying in general.
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Accelerator



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zacewing wrote:
Libra is meant for finding weaknesses, so of course it helps your AI choose commands more intelligently. It's not like Libra doesn't help you choose commands more intelligently when you use regular commands; you need to know weaknesses to play both Commando and Ravager effectively. Libra's function is literally the exact same as P3's analyse function. I don't see how that encourages the use of auto-battle when it still helps you just fine if you don't use auto-battle.



uh because once i scan the enemy, auto battle will pick effective if not the best moves for me to use

there's literally zero reason for me to select the commands myself except pretending that im doing something
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Skythe



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ffxiii and ffxiii-2 aren't about the abilities

they're about timing the paradigm shifts and working with the gauge at the top right

you're dumb if you hadn't figured that out, and the game tries very hard to show you that by letting you know with stars

if you're bad you also lengthen 1-2 minute battles to battles that take 10+ minutes

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Curimuch



Joined: 13 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kajitani-Eizan wrote:
did you guys wait until postgame to do archlyte or what? if you challenge the harder battles in chapter 11 itself, you'll find yourself having to put a bit more effort into battles than just "hurr i need to heal now hurr i need to attack now". this was literally the entire crux of the gameplay. there were like 8 chapters of tutorial and hallways to prep you for chapters 9/11/12/13. you ruined it for yourself if you didn't play the gameplay.

Bro, I'm doing all the sidequests to get platinum. There is no thinking required to do it.

And much later turns into 'have Fang limit break the **** out of it'
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Harbinger



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideally, in an JRPG, you should have the freedom to do something else when you want to take a break from doing the main quest. Having side quests really help. It also makes leveling less tedious.

In FFX3, you had no freedom until that part later on. You had to s*ck it up until then.

IMO, RPGs need to have some linear parts for the sake of a solid story, but they also need open world. Ideally, you would start the game with a "hallway" until you get familiar with the game. Then, you are given more freedom to explore and derive from the main quest. After completing (or skipping) that, you should fall back into another hallway (if what you did before affects the outcome, it's even better). After that 2nd hallway, you should be given even more choices. IMO, that's how it should be. Have "hallways" for story and have "freedom" for exploration.

If the game-play is too linear, it gets tedious. If there's too much freedom, the story might take a shot. It's best to have a healthy mix of them with a reasonable rotation Smile
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Accelerator



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everything in ffxiii's main story can be beaten effiecently and with 5 stars by just

making a paradigm of two ravagers and a buffer/healer

three commandos for when the uh...stun gauge or whatever is full

then a medic/sen/medic to defend.

and then just click auto battle and change when the incredibly obvious indicators tell you to (full stun gauge, low HP)

i did this for the entire main storyline, battles never took long at all and i always had 5 stars

in the first game at least
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Taiyz



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with Zace's comments about Commandos. There's plenty of strategy as a Commando if you decided to maintain a chain gauge with AoE attacks (something I did a lot of in the water area on Pulse and in the second-last chapter.)

Accelerator wrote:
GentlemanlyRuin wrote:
lots of older games have auto battle
persona has the rush button
The difference is that in Persona 2, you actually have to select your moves before hand strategically for the battle you're in. It's not "click auto battle to win lol" it's just a faster way to select your commands and get a battle going so you don't have to go through menus each turn when you want to use the same command.
This isn't autobattle in the first place, it sounds like the macros from Phantasy Star IV.

Accelerator wrote:
FFXIII's AI is actually decent enough that autobattle wins EVERYTHING if they're set to the right Paradigm, ESPECIALLY if you take two seconds to scan for weaknesses before hand. literally the only player interaction ever required is to switch paradigms between like, ravager centric, medic centric and commando centric when they're stunned or whatever. It's really like watching a movie when they battle. It's kind of like if you played P3 and the only thing you were allowed to do in battle is change your party members' tactics without MC being able to do anything himself.
Zace raised a good point regarding this; autobattle is a crutch. It's an option. Sure the game defaults to it, but it's MADE to get people through the story, and that's it. If autobattle COULDN'T beat the game, then the mechanic would be flawed.

Just because you used it doesn't mean that everybody else wants to.

braindead200 wrote:
I had to think about battles in XIII because I was vastly underleveled. I imagine if you did the Archtype Steppe sidequests, it wouldn't be too difficult.
Kind of the opposite is true. The Archylte Steppe missions are designed as post-game content so if you want to five star them before the end of the game, a great deal of effort is involved in some of them. As far as I'm concerned, if you didn't five star a mission, you didn't really beat it (though it's perfectly fine to mash your way through enough to get access to the teleporter ones.)

Accelerator wrote:
also auto battle is CERTAINLY supposed to be used in most battles. they even encourage you to scan the enemy so that your auto battle selects even more ideal options ffs
Yeah...But you have access to that data immediately and can view enemy weaknesses yourself, which you can then build into YOUR strategy for the fight, without using autobattle. It's not like the feature is only useful for autobattle.
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braindead200



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beating the later (aka harder) boss battles with auto-battle is just laughable. I can't see anyone beating the final boss with auto-battle. If there is, I would sure love to see it.

Kenny, I'm under the impression that you haven't beaten the game. Yes, this is important. You have a right to stop playing a game midway but to say you can auto-battle throughout the whole game when you haven't even played through the whole game is a ridiculous statement to make.

That's just what I think, assuming what I said about you not beating the game was true.
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Curimuch



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can auto battle him
its about what you're wearing rather than what you're doing when it comes to the final boss
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