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Ryke
Moderator
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 14102
Location: Québec
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 Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| *v* wrote: |
Keep in mind that owning lolicon (drawn sex with children) is grounds for arrest in North America under child pornography laws. |
If something along the lines of Shikon's drawing falls under that law, I find the law a bit overbearing, the drawing being satirical in nature, and the actual nature of what it depicts being pretty much secondary to mocking Michael Jackson.
It was definitely, clearly, against forum rules. To say that we have a moral or legal imperative to go further than a temp-ban, seeing as he'd never had one before, seems to me like pushing it. I'm unbanning him sometime tomorrow, and we'll see.
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jesselt
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 7952
Location: Two years ago
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Most of me likes the fact that the Moderators are more conservative in dishing out bans than the old set used to be, but it's times like these when I wish we were one of the many forums that just bans people for being annoying =(
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Shadowfox
Moderator
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 21827
Location: Make mine Mayday! 'nuff said...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Fake wrote: | | If somebody everybody liked posted it, there wouldn't be an outcry like this. |
I don't want to say it but...yes I agree with that but then again I think it's somewhat expected, not trying to stir up the pot or anything but, there is always one individual that when the time comes their head will be called to be put on a sliver platter yet if a certain other does the same crime no one will call them out on it. I think it's just human nature to be bias like that though. 
| *v* wrote: | | Keep in mind that owning lolicon (drawn sex with children) is grounds for arrest in North America under child pornography laws. |
I kind of don't think the same thing applies, Shikon's drawing wasn't so much actual porn as it was direct mockery of Jackson's personal life.
| jessult wrote: | | Most of me likes the fact that the Moderators are more conservative in dishing out bans than the old set used to be, but it's times like these when I wish we were one of the many forums that just bans people for being annoying =( |
That'd be nice but yeah at times you gotta be a bit more fair and unbiased. 
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MasterT
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 19198
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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So I hear penis pictures are no longer instant ban.
Can someone please update the rules.
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*v*
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 16058
Location: Underacting my role as a world leader.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Did it contain a penis? Did it contain a child? It doesn't matter if it is funny, this is a zero tolerance matter. It doesn't matter how crudely it is drawn, what should be considered is the intent of the image. The intent was to offend as many people as possible. It was an image of Michael Jackson in a sexual situation with a child, a penis is depicted, posted in a topic about his death very shortly after the fact.
Tell me what is excusable about a very deliberate attempt to flamebait, a member seizing an opportunity to be as offensive as possible, and doing that with a sexual image.
The quality of the drawing is irrelevant, it very clearly obvious that one person is a child and the other is an adult.
The "humor" value of the image is of no matter, there is clearly a large penis in the image.
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Fake
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 13251
Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location:
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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He crudely drew it because that's all it was; flamebait crap. Wasn't trying anything else.
He didn't post real child porn or a picture of a real penis.
By that logic, everybody should get points for the "post forum members' deaths with MS Paint" thing, blood and violence =O
Just let the guy have a temp ban and roll with it. That's the whole point, to see if they get the message and stop being idiots.
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Ryuuko
Moderator
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 25575
Location: Buffalo
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Fake wrote: | He crudely drew it because that's all it was; flamebait crap. Wasn't trying anything else.
He didn't post real child porn or a picture of a real penis. |
I agree. I don't think that image really constitutes as child porn. It was an attempt to tick people off, which it was successful in. It was just a poorly drawn flamebait.
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CovertSushi
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 11214
Location: Confirmed. Sending supplies.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:41 am Post subject: |
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You guys know what the best part is? The event he tried to portray didn't even take place.
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Lunar Eclipse
Administrator
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 21450
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| MasterT wrote: | So I hear penis pictures are no longer instant ban.
Can someone please update the rules. |
Uh, remember how people've had drawn penises and/or suggestions of penises in signatures before and we've done no more than remove them and award points in the past? Seems pretty much the same to me here. I'm not saying the drawn pornography issue isn't a valid complaint since it actually has me considering the problem more deeply, but I also find it ridiculous that no one brought it up as grounds for a permanent ban until now. Why is it so incredibly offensive this time? Is it just because of who posted it or because of who he made fun of? I can't really figure it out.
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CovertSushi
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 11214
Location: Confirmed. Sending supplies.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Well, the only person I can recall having something that was clearly phallic in an avatar/signature was Charlie's mutant penis signature thing, which quite frankly was green and kind of scaly. Yeah it was the exact shape of a penis but it wasn't penetrating anything or doing anything other than being in his signature. The context needs to be considered, too.
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*v*
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 16058
Location: Underacting my role as a world leader.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:14 am Post subject: |
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I don't know why such a serious attempt at nothing besides maliciousness deserves a second chance.
I'm not taking issue because it was a member I don't like, nor is it because it was Michael Jackson. I take offense because, though we've had penis jokes before, did any of them seriously imply sexual relations with children? This crosses every line I've ever perceived.
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Ryke
Moderator
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 14102
Location: Québec
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| *v* wrote: | I don't know why such a serious attempt at nothing besides maliciousness deserves a second chance.
I'm not taking issue because it was a member I don't like, nor is it because it was Michael Jackson. I take offense because, though we've had penis jokes before, did any of them seriously imply sexual relations with children? This crosses every line I've ever perceived. |
It's a stick figure and a much smaller stick figure. Yeah, it is pretty clear what it's supposed to imply, and it's undeniably very stupid and offensive. But I don't see how it comes close to any real depiction of sexual relations with children. It's two stick figures and a misshapen penis outline. It's a really, really bad joke, but I can see other (stupid) people pulling it. It's mind-numbingly stupid, it's provocative and it's clearly against the rules, but I don't think it's much more than that.
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This space in memory of my 42 Dresden Codak avatars which took a stupid amount of work for absolutely no worthwhile return. |
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Sludgey
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 4280
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Fake wrote: | | If somebody everybody liked posted it, there wouldn't be an outcry like this. |
I don't think that scenario would happen; to clarify I don't think anyone that was generally respected by this community would do something so tasteless. Yeah, the topic was made by someone who hates Shikon, but it wasn't because they hate Shikon, but because his behavior has been so unacceptable lately and Atlas was calling him out on it.
To be honest, I agree with the general consensus that we should go through the normal process of temp ban to permanent ban, but frankly I'm disappointed about the sheer lack of moderation as of late. In this very topic, most of the mods admitted that he should have more points right now, and the whole thing could have been avoided. I'm not trying to lecture, but when I hear mods on Skype or in private conversations saying "Eh, I don't think [x] is REALLY point worthy..." even after I show specific rules to prove it is a direct violation, or "We never enforce that rule, it wouldn't be fair", and even "I'm too lazy most of the time to load up the point database", well, I think it's clear that there's some stepping up to do. |
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Curimuch
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 17783
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: |
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It's also counted by the fact the mod team try way too hard to be neutral.
It's admirable to a certain extent, especially being opened minded when someone is called out. But then it kinda all goes down the pooper when you admit the whole miscounted points as Sludgey mentioned.
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| Abicion wrote: | Once again Accelerator is convinced something is a deep and brilliant masterpiece despite everyone else pointing out the flaws in it.
That seems to be a thing with him. |
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Psypher
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 7720
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Sludgey wrote: |
To be honest, I agree with the general consensus that we should go through the normal process of temp ban to permanent ban,but frankly I'm disappointed about the sheer lack of moderation as of late. In this very topic, most of the mods admitted that he should have more points right now, and the whole thing could have been avoided. I'm not trying to lecture, but when I hear mods on Skype or in private conversations saying "Eh, I don't think [x] is REALLY point worthy..." even after I show specific rules to prove it is a direct violation, or "We never enforce that rule, it wouldn't be fair", and even "I'm too lazy most of the time to load up the point database", well, I think it's clear that there's some stepping up to do. |
I definitely agree with what you said. I really do think our mods need to be more strict, and have thought this for a while.
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