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sistaofpeace1
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 6685
Location: In my deep dark basement, plotting to kidnap my niece
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 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Glen ^^ wrote: | Edit: I like Luke, but it's too clear his development, the game forced it too much. Some examples of good development: Reid, "I'm going just because someone is forcing me", then "We're too far now, let's continue" and finaly "Protect those you love".
Senel, "Big brother", then "What the f*ck is going on?", then "I'll pretend I love her so I won't need to kill her", then "Big brother" again.
Colette, "I don't care to die if this is to help people" then "I want to help people, by staying alive".
There's much more, just lazy to list them. Luke's development was annoying, predicable, forced, etc ;/ |
Luke was betrayed by the only person he trusted, killed thousands of people by accident, and then find out that he's actually an artificial being. If that doesn't warrant the slightest change of heart from someone, I don't know what the hell does. I'm actually surprised he didn't slit his throat after all that happening.
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braindead200
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 9435
Location: DOJYAAAAAAN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Moh's is actually a good villian. His reasons and suffering he caused to people makes you so emtional, you just wanna punch him. But then again, I do hate him. HAHAHA!
Anise didn't kill Ion, Moh's did. He held her parents captive. Which Moh's made her do everything at his command just to see the well being of her parents.
Old Luke, I never liked his @$$, igorant personality. I'm glad he changed later on. |
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Chocolat
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 333
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| SilverWolf-chan wrote: | Luke's character development can be summed up this way:
"Master Van pwns all of you, you stupid idiots." -> "But-but-but-but Master Van made me do it!" -> "Asch, you're so much better than me because you're an original and I'm a replica, I'm going to go slit my wrists now because I'm so pathetic and I'm just a worthless replica." -> "Okay! Let's go save the world lol!" |
You need no flame shield here, for the record- I just feel the urge to pipe up. I don't know that I'd call Luke the best hero with the best development, Tales or no, but I don't like it when people categorize his meltdown and struggle for self-definition in this way. There's a lot more to his character than just the archetypical outbursts. Constantly told to take responsibility for the lives he took, but also told to have regard for his own life, to the point of being shouted and cursed at by the party, people pushing and tugging you every which way- hell, I'd drift in and out of attitudes as well. "Okay, I'll change, I made mistakes, I want to make amends, with my life if I have to- huh? What's that you say, my life's no good? What, my life IS good, but I shouldn't be willing to give it, that others might live? What, that's not what you're saying? Wait, why am I an idiot now? What the hell am I supposed to do?!" I found his total bewilderment and resulting drift into more...well, wider modes of thought, even when they led him to cut himself down to size, very endearing.
But if he just annoyed the hell out of you/wasn't what you were looking for in a hero, hey, no problem. I hope the next big Tales hero is more to your liking. I just don't think it's fair to the context of his struggle to encapsulate it like that. |
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Searing_Sorrow
Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 64
Location: Yulia City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I can definitely feel for you, SiStAoFpEaCe1. Luke and Anise are the most misunderstood characters in the game I believe.
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Shinneth
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:04 am Post subject: |
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I couldn't stand Mohs. I was happy to be able to kill him at some point, but GOD, he lasted so long... and by the end he was just flat-out annoying. Good riddance.
I also hate the stupid Colesium MC because she doesn't seem to grasp the concept of STFU. When I am in the colesium, I desire a freaking BATTLE, not an overly-dramatic monologue. Also, she sucks because she doesn't acknowledge my Titles like the Symphonia one did. Useless.
I don't hate her, but Legretta's easily my least-favorite of the God-Generals. Something just seemed very... empty about her, and I wasn't really fond of how she fell in love with Van. Plus, I kept thinking "Riza Hawkeye" eeeevery time I saw her. Oh well. It's more like a blatant disinterest in Legretta rather than hatred.
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sistaofpeace1
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 6685
Location: In my deep dark basement, plotting to kidnap my niece
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Chocolat wrote: | | But if he just annoyed the hell out of you/wasn't what you were looking for in a hero, hey, no problem. I hope the next big Tales hero is more to your liking. I just don't think it's fair to the context of his struggle to encapsulate it like that. |
Exactly what I'm saying; no one is obligated to actually like them and you can easily sum up any Tales hero in a few mere sentences, but you also have to consider the actual journey they went through.
| Searing_Sorrow wrote: | | I can definitely feel for you, SiStAoFpEaCe1. Luke and Anise are the most misunderstood characters in the game I believe. |
I can see how a lot of people would hate Anise, but yeah, she did have her reasons too when you think about it.
| Shinneth wrote: | | Plus, I kept thinking "Riza Hawkeye" eeeevery time I saw her. |
I actually saw a crossover fanart of the two of them once, I never realized how alike they were until I saw it 
Though I still like Legretta XD
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Shadowfox
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 21753
Location: Make mine Mayday! 'nuff said...
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Searing_Sorrow wrote: | | Asch. His character was really bland and boring, it hardly brought anything new. His obnoxious attitude and poorly developed relationship with Natalia didn't help much either. |
The ironic thing about that is that one could say Luke was just as obnoxious as Asch was if not more (and yeah I'm a Luke fan but still...)
And how was Asch's relationship with Natalia poorly developed? It was mentioned, looked backed, and hinted upon in damn near every scene the two of them were in together.
| Glen ^^ wrote: | Edit: I like Luke, but it's too clear his development, the game forced it too much. Some examples of good development:
Senel, "Big brother", then "What the f*ck is going on?", then "I'll pretend I love her so I won't need to kill her", then "Big brother" again. |
I agree with this, while I like Luke, Senel is still my favorite Tales Main Hero (guess he just set the bar too high in my mind).
| braindead200 wrote: | | Anise didn't kill Ion, Moh's did. |
No just no, Moh's may have set up his death but you can't sit there and say Anise did not stand her hands with Ion's blood...
| Quote: | | He held her parents captive. Which Moh's made her do everything at his command just to see the well being of her parents. |
So basically you're telling me that Anise was too weak to stand up and save her parents? I said it once and I'll say it again the God Generals (and Van) didn't give a crap about Mohs, all that protected him was his men. With Tokunaga how hard is it for her beat his men and force him to release her parents? Hell she could have gotten Jade to help (or the others eventually), no instead Anise stood there silent and allow herself to be used like puppet (then has the gall to insult Luke for the tragedy he caused).
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sistaofpeace1
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 6685
Location: In my deep dark basement, plotting to kidnap my niece
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Shadowfox wrote: | | And how was Asch's relationship with Natalia poorly developed? It was mentioned, looked backed, and hinted upon in damn near every scene the two of them were in together. |
It's not a question of whether they liked each other as it is a question of how each of them got those feelings for each other in the first place. I think it would have definitely helped their relationship's portrayal if we were at least given some sort of flashback into how they started liking each other as kids and what exactly motivated them to make their "promise" to each other. It's more like we're given the outer "framework" but the actual composition leaves much to be desired.
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Kuroda
Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 10158
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Searing_Sorrow wrote: | | I can definitely feel for you, SiStAoFpEaCe1. Luke and Anise are the most misunderstood characters in the game I believe. |
Please don't tell me you're saying, "If you hate Anise or Luke, you obviously don't understand them."
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Illi
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Joined: 22 Dec 2004
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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People tend to hate things they don't understand though... But I shall agree with you that it isn't always the case.
However, I will say this. Luke to me was the most predictable character in the entire game. I could foretell his character development from a mile ahead. He has one of the most typical and orthodox characters used in stories that I've ever come across.
His arrogance got annoying in the beginning as well. It was funny the first few times, but then everytime he'd respond to a refuted comment with "SHUT UP!" or "yeh whatever" it got irritating. |
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Lunatic Drache
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 4511
Location: With my EDWARDIAN SPARKLING VAMPIRE
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Illidan wrote: | People tend to hate things they don't understand though... But I shall agree with you that it isn't always the case.
However, I will say this. Luke to me was the most predictable character in the entire game. I could foretell his character development from a mile ahead. He has one of the most typical and orthodox characters used in stories that I've ever come across.
His arrogance got annoying in the beginning as well. It was funny the first few times, but then everytime he'd respond to a refuted comment with "SHUT UP!" or "yeh whatever" it got irritating. |
Maybe that's why I hate Anise sooo much. She was cool in the beginning.
Luke was predictable. I knew that he was going to change. I don't think he's THAT typical. In the beginning, I didn't like him at all, but by the end, he was my second favorite character.
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Natsumi
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 2438
Location: Janos, making snowmen with Chelsea
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuroda wrote: | | Searing_Sorrow wrote: | | I can definitely feel for you, SiStAoFpEaCe1. Luke and Anise are the most misunderstood characters in the game I believe. |
Please don't tell me you're saying, "If you hate Anise or Luke, you obviously don't understand them." |
Exactly what I was thinking.
Using that logic, then, most of you obviously don't understand Mohs.
I can't count how many times I've hated a character that everyone else obsessed over, and everyone would always tell me that "Since you hate them, you obviously don't understand them." -_-
Yes, I understand that Luke was ansty for good reasons, but was it really necessary for him to whine about it for as much and as long as he did? Also, was it really necessary for him to continue on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how since Asch was an original he was obviously at least 500x superior to Luke, when there was really no noticeable difference between the two outside of how they delt with their inferiority complexes?
I'm not asking all of you all to hate Luke too. I'm just saying that I hated him, and it was not because I didn't understand him.
For the record, I liked Anise, regardless of the fact that she betrayed the party and practically killed Ion.
I didn't really hate Mohs either. True, he got in the way a lot, but isn't that a villain's job? His goal was leading the world to prosperity, and he believed that following the Score would do that. (Unfortunately, he also believed that that was the only way...)
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sistaofpeace1
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 6685
Location: In my deep dark basement, plotting to kidnap my niece
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Again, no one is saying you can't "hate" them...if he just happens to not float your boat, then whatever, not everyone is going to like every character in the game for whatever the reason. It happens.
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Last edited by sistaofpeace1 on Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Searing_Sorrow
Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 64
Location: Yulia City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Way to put words in my mouth. >_<
I'm only saying the reasons people give for hating Anise and Luke are only looking things from one perspective.
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Illi
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Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 15751
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| drachemeister wrote: | | Luke was predictable. I knew that he was going to change. I don't think he's THAT typical. In the beginning, I didn't like him at all, but by the end, he was my second favorite character. |
Rude, cold seeming characters who have a hidden sensitivity to them which eventually helps them change seems pretty typical to me.
I don't dislike Luke by the way, but I don't think he's that great either. He's just kinda in between the "bleh" factor for me. =/ |
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